Northwestern Mutual

[SerrateAndDominate]

No idea, but I'd be happy to field questions for the group

[FunkDoc83]

Anyone know how much a NWM insurance sales person makes?  Low end to upper end?

[mkintx]

I have my disability with them.  It's not the greatest, but I've had it so long that it is fairly inexpensive and is good enough at this point.  They used to try to sell me on whole life all the time but I got aggressive with them and they stopped.  When I canceled my life insurance with them, they tried to scare me into keeping it, saying that at my age I wouldn't be able to qualify for such a good rate, and I told them I just qualified with a different company for a new 20 year policy for significantly less money (thanks, term4sale.com!).  They don't even bother calling me anymore.

I initially started with them because they were recommended by a colleague I trusted, and I was ignorant.  He was as well.  We are our own worst enemies.

[SerrateAndDominate]

Just got a calendar invite at my fellowship program that this company has someone giving a talk in two weeks. I kinda want to sit in and troll it

 

[ruralpeds]

I have a cousin who works for NML. They have ties inside my residency, that's undeniable.

I purchased a modest own occ disability & small term life policy from him about 4 years ago. I'm a pediatrician, DINK household, so don't need lots with no kids and spouse who can support self. Premiums amount to 2-3 hundred per month. (Maybe I could do better if 30% less for others' premiums is ossicle per previous posts?)

Since I didn't know an insurance broker in the area, I figured this was reasonable disability product as any of the big 5. My other residency peers sounded clueless about finances so I didn't ask them.

+1: he offered to set up a backdoor Roth - I declined. He never gave the WL pitch. ( I was Boglehead / WCI reader so I knew to avoid WL)

[Donnie]

If it makes you guys feel any better, docs aren't the only ones getting hassled by NWM.  I get a cold call from NWM about once a quarter.  I get a lot of calls from wealth management people.  It wasn't until I started reading the forum here that I realized one of the repeat callers is NWM since I always end the call quickly after the intro.

[The White Coat Investor]

Rando wrote:

In my case I did my undergrad and medical training in Milwaukee, where NML is based.  They had a great reputation in the city, I believe offered free lunches to their employees and were consistently rated one of the best places to work, plus they had the very high insurer ratings.  So to me, as a young physician ignorant of financial matters, I figured such a good company would be equally good to its clients.  It took me some time to figure out they were not.  Luckily I never bought any of their whole life or annuities.

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Which is the really disappointing thing about it. I mean, they're mutual! It's not a matter of treating the clients well, it's a matter of treating the OWNERS well. What kind of a company doesn't treat the owners well? It's tragic, really.

[Rando]

In my case I did my undergrad and medical training in Milwaukee, where NML is based.  They had a great reputation in the city, I believe offered free lunches to their employees and were consistently rated one of the best places to work, plus they had the very high insurer ratings.  So to me, as a young physician ignorant of financial matters, I figured such a good company would be equally good to its clients.  It took me some time to figure out they were not.  Luckily I never bought any of their whole life or annuities.

[The White Coat Investor]

Vagabond MD wrote:

Which could it be considered, libel or slander, if I share my personal experiences with NWML on this forum? I guess I better just keep my mouth shut.

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You can say whatever you want. You just need to make sure your opinions are clearly identified and your facts are true. Then you're guilty of neither libel or slander.

[VagabondMD]

Which could it be considered, libel or slander, if I share my personal experiences with NWML on this forum? I guess I better just keep my mouth shut.

[Jason Veirs]

This is true and a valid point, but as was the case with Genworth, another more financially stable carrier will usually come along and assume/purchase the block of business of another carrier, should that carrier become insolvent and run into any hiccups. There's also usually a State Guarantee Association/Fund as others have mentioned, which would cover at least a minimum amount of the death benefit (usually very minimal and around $200-300k, depending on the specific state where the policy was written). This way, the policyholders aren't left completely out in the cold, and without their life insurance death benefit - Also, I could be wrong, but to my knowledge, there has never been a situation where policyholders have been left on the hook by an insurance carrier who has gone insolvent and has not had another carrier come in to "pick up the tab"?

Of course in an assumption scenario, the new carrier will usually absorb all of the initial contractual guarantees which were put in-place by the initial carrier. Yes, your annual premium statement might have a different carrier's name, but it's typically not a doom-and-gloom sort of thing.

Also, although no one can predict the future, going with a carrier like Prudential, Banner Life, Protective Life, or Transamerica, etc., who all have around a 90-95 Comdex score is usually a much better value than another carrier who has a 100 Comdex score but is 20-30% more in premium for the life of the contract - Do the math, this 20-30% over the life of the contract equates to thousands of dollars in extra premiums. I always equate this 95 vs. 100 Comdex score argument to someone having an 800 FICO vs. a 740+ FICO. Yes, you can brag to all of your friends about your 800 FICO score at a cocktail party, but the person with a 740+ FICO is usually going to qualify for the same percentage rate on a car loan or mortgage, assuming that all things are equal. Of course, Northwestern Mutual and New York Life agents will be the first to tell you about how great they are because they have a 100 Comdex score, as that's how they're trained to sell and that's the ship that they will go down on.. It's quite comical actually.

[Craigy]

Hank wrote:

An insurance company failing is a low probability, high severity event. Yet one more reason not to put all your eggs in one basket.

If you initially need $3M in coverage, then three $1M policies of 10, 20, and 30 years of duration makes sense. You have coverage from your state guaranty company for each of the policies. Barring a Crixus type event, it’s unlikely that even one of the companies would fail, much less all three.

If three highly rated insurers fail, there’s probably something bigger happening to the economy or geopolitics that we need to worry about.

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Exactly.

I think a few of the posts struck me as "Northwestern is horrible, why would anybody buy their products."  Their one redeeming quality is that they are well funded and well managed.  Insurance companies do fail with some regularity, thought they are typically companies that you've never heard of.

Splitting your policies is an interesting concept, and would hedge against the possibility of your insurer going Enron on you.  But outside of fraud, in theory the same market factors that would cause one highly-rated firm to fail would probably have wiped out the others too (Crixus event).

Easy solution is just not to buy whole life to begin with.   

[Hank]

An insurance company failing is a low probability, high severity event. Yet one more reason not to put all your eggs in one basket.

If you initially need $3M in coverage, then three $1M policies of 10, 20, and 30 years of duration makes sense. You have coverage from your state guaranty company for each of the policies. Barring a Crixus type event, it's unlikely that even one of the companies would fail, much less all three.

If three highly rated insurers fail, there's probably something bigger happening to the economy or geopolitics that we need to worry about.

[Craigy]

For what it's worth, Northwestern is one of the strongest, best rated insurers.  Last time I saw, their comdex was 100, only matched by NY life and maybe Berkshire or USAA.  If you buy a northwestern policy, you can rest very well assured that when you die, they're going to pay.  And that's a legitimate concern when you're buying a policy in your 20s or 30s and need the company to still exist and be solvent in 60 or 70 years' time.  It's blue chip.

That said, you're paying for that comdex score, and all of those free steak dinners, and free seminars, and aggressive marketing, in the form of higher premiums.  And a company with a 95 rating without all the free dinners is going to be a better buy.

[treesrock]

MDHubby wrote:

My wife’s residency program offers up free advising from NWM for the duration of residency. We met with him once and I felt like he had some good boilerplate information, especially for my wife who has never really thought about retirement, but he was also teeing himself up for the big WL pitch. “Term life is like renting a house, Whole life is like buying one” he says. I fortunately got a copy of WCI and have since educated myself.

I have another meeting with him next week. Armed with what I’ve learned I am returning to see if the relationship is worthwhile, even at no cost to us. Suffice to say, I’m glad I found the book/website/forum to keep me from being sold something I don’t want or need.

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This is the problem here.  NWM has somehow infiltrated residency programs like the plague, pretending to offer "free information" in return to peddling their products to the uninformed.  How residency programs allow this I don't understand, but I think it highlights how financially naive medical professionals are.