Northwestern Mutual

[DocintheBox]

So I'm a new intern and have had multiple upper-level residents texting myself and the other interns about their "great financial advisor" who works at NWM. I've already helped many of my co-interns set up their 403b and educate them on the different funds we have access to (what funds are, expense ratios, etc.).

What do you guys recommend in terms of warning people about NWM? I don't want to act like a know-it-all, but I also don't want any of them to get suckered into a WL policy or pay exorbitant fees in exchange for mediocre advice. I don't want to insult any of the upper-level resident's intelligence either since they use the NWM "advisor"

[SerrateAndDominate]

So I'm a new intern and have had multiple upper-level residents texting myself and the other interns about their "great financial advisor" who works at NWM. I've already helped many of my co-interns set up their 403b and educate them on the different funds we have access to (what funds are, expense ratios, etc.).

What do you guys recommend in terms of warning people about NWM? I don't want to act like a know-it-all, but I also don't want any of them to get suckered into a WL policy or pay exorbitant fees in exchange for mediocre advice. I don't want to insult any of the upper-level resident's intelligence either since they use the NWM "advisor"

Just send them a link to the Inappropriate Whole Life policy of the day thread. They'll see a recurring theme

[MPMD]

So I'm a new intern and have had multiple upper-level residents texting myself and the other interns about their "great financial advisor" who works at NWM. I've already helped many of my co-interns set up their 403b and educate them on the different funds we have access to (what funds are, expense ratios, etc.).

What do you guys recommend in terms of warning people about NWM? I don't want to act like a know-it-all, but I also don't want any of them to get suckered into a WL policy or pay exorbitant fees in exchange for mediocre advice. I don't want to insult any of the upper-level resident's intelligence either since they use the NWM "advisor"

i know a retired doc (early 70s) who went all in with NWM for their entire career.

they had a retirement meeting with their "advisor" a few years ago and the final performance after a career with NWM was 4%.

it's sad, really almost criminal if you ask me. the doc could have literally just done CDs and muni bonds over their career, not paid a dime in commission, and been in almost the same positition.

[JBME]

So I'm a new intern and have had multiple upper-level residents texting myself and the other interns about their "great financial advisor" who works at NWM. I've already helped many of my co-interns set up their 403b and educate them on the different funds we have access to (what funds are, expense ratios, etc.).

What do you guys recommend in terms of warning people about NWM? I don't want to act like a know-it-all, but I also don't want any of them to get suckered into a WL policy or pay exorbitant fees in exchange for mediocre advice. I don't want to insult any of the upper-level resident's intelligence either since they use the NWM "advisor"

they probably aren't going to listen to you. I would just passively mention "hey, have you heard of the white coat investor or physician on fire?" and include a link to their websites. You can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink....

[afan]

i know a retired doc (early 70s) who went all in with NWM for their entire career.

they had a retirement meeting with their "advisor" a few years ago and the final performance after a career with NWM was 4%.

it's sad, really almost criminal if you ask me. the doc could have literally just done CDs and muni bonds over their career, not paid a dime in commission, and been in almost the same positition.

I suspect that 4% is life insurance speak. They calculate the return on amounts that are in the cash value, while ignoring the impact of fees and costs of insurance.

Look, the issue is not, mainly, one particular company. It is a bad product, whole life insurance.
It is a bad product no matter which company sells it.

I still have not evidence that the term policies from this company should be avoided.

[Tim]

“Maybe they will have the best policy for you, maybe not. It is foolish to eliminate a potential good provider for one product because they also sell things you don't need.
Maybe I got lucky or maybe it never occurred to me that the agent was anything other than a salesperson but I never had a bad experience with the company. The agents were no different, certainly no worse, than any other insurance salespeople.”

The business model “stinks” in my opinion. The one product that is a commodity is term life insurance. Actuarial tables, monthly premiums and the settlement is nonnegotiable, alive or dead? NWM has no option but to compete on price.
Do I think “advice” would be reliable? My impression is “advice” is likely not only not fiduciary, but my insurance agent would sell me as much as possible. Why not $3m or $5m? Oh by the way are you married?
So much is wrong with presenting financial and insurance products without a hint about a products drawbacks, shortcomings, or the option to suggest a better alternative.
NWM markets through Advisors and Agents. They don’t tell you that they are only salesman to the customers. Clients are basically “marks” to be sold as much as possible. On that basis, I would shop elsewhere as a matter of principle. Price on term insurance is a commodity. The business model is the problem. My perception is that NWM is and adversarial relationship. No thanks.

[SerrateAndDominate]

I still have not evidence that the term policies from this company should be avoided.

They probably do have some decent term policies. I have no doubt about that, but after sitting through some of their nonsense and also reading enough about their tactics, I'd rather spend my money elsewhere

[jfoxcpacfp]

So I'm a new intern and have had multiple upper-level residents texting myself and the other interns about their "great financial advisor" who works at NWM. I've already helped many of my co-interns set up their 403b and educate them on the different funds we have access to (what funds are, expense ratios, etc.).

What do you guys recommend in terms of warning people about NWM? I don't want to act like a know-it-all, but I also don't want any of them to get suckered into a WL policy or pay exorbitant fees in exchange for mediocre advice. I don't want to insult any of the upper-level resident's intelligence either since they use the NWM "advisor"

Tell them that you found a different advisor that they might want to check out and that your advisor has saved you tens of thousands of $$. Them send them links to the forum, the blog, and the book on Amazon.

[G]

So I'm a new intern and have had multiple upper-level residents texting myself and the other interns about their "great financial advisor" who works at NWM. I've already helped many of my co-interns set up their 403b and educate them on the different funds we have access to (what funds are, expense ratios, etc.).

What do you guys recommend in terms of warning people about NWM? I don't want to act like a know-it-all, but I also don't want any of them to get suckered into a WL policy or pay exorbitant fees in exchange for mediocre advice. I don't want to insult any of the upper-level resident's intelligence either since they use the NWM "advisor"

Agree with S&D to show them the inappropriate whole life policy of the week thread, or just point them to WCI website.

Otherwise, I would be tread carefully. It is the rare bird in medicine who takes kindly to a junior doc (an intern no less!) pointing out their mistakes and/or challenging their decisions/actions/beliefs.

Actually, that doesn't change at all when you're no longer the junior doc.

[Tim]

“Actually, that doesn't change at all when you're no longer the junior doc.”
Or a husband or a Dad. Unsolicited advice is problematic.

[G]

Or a husband or a Dad.

I mean, of course.

[CordMcNally]

So I'm a new intern and have had multiple upper-level residents texting myself and the other interns about their "great financial advisor" who works at NWM. I've already helped many of my co-interns set up their 403b and educate them on the different funds we have access to (what funds are, expense ratios, etc.).

What do you guys recommend in terms of warning people about NWM? I don't want to act like a know-it-all, but I also don't want any of them to get suckered into a WL policy or pay exorbitant fees in exchange for mediocre advice. I don't want to insult any of the upper-level resident's intelligence either since they use the NWM "advisor"

I'm always a fan of decision trees to help me when trying to decide what to do. The first (and only) fork in the road is arguably the most important.

1.) Do you like the person?
A.) If no, tell them that they're an idiot with such a knowledge deficit that they'll never amount to anything in life. Make sure they know how much they disgust you.
B.) If yes, just tell them about WCI, Bogleheads, etc. and that the best thing you've done is invest in personal finance/investing knowledge that will save you hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of your life. If they specifically ask about WL then tell them you don't mix insurance and investing and that you're not one of the select few that a WL policy could benefit. Make sure they know that they also disgust you.

*I bolded the most important parts for emphasis.

[fatlittlepig]

Tis unwise to challenge others’ beliefs in their financial advisors or strategy. Why should they listen to a fatlittlepig over their charismatic advisor. The best thing is to do your own thing and let’s others do their thing.

[Andrew Musbach]

I’ve found questions to be the most impactful/least intrusive way to help educate. If an advisor works at NWM then at some point a whole life insurance policy pitch is coming - not a matter of if, but when. Just ask your peers why whole life insurance is so good? Why should I pay this much for whole life insurance before maxing out my retirement accounts? How much life insurance does your advisor say you need and why that much? What does your advisor say about addressing your student loans or saving for a down payment or college down the road? Do you know if we have any discounts through our residency for disability insurance? How does your advisor recommend allocating our retirement accounts? And ask if they know how much their “advisor” makes if you (or they) buy a whole life insurance policy. I’d think most eyebrows would raise if they knew their advisor would make $30k upfront from the $60k/yr $4 million whole life insurance policy they are about to buy. You don’t have to ask those questions all at once, but over time, they should realize their “advisor” isn’t addressing many (or any any) of them. Then you can tell them even a fat little pig could give better advice than that

[AR]

I’ve found questions to be the most impactful/least intrusive way to help educate. If an advisor works at NWM then at some point a whole life insurance policy pitch is coming - not a matter of if, but when. Just ask your peers why whole life insurance is so good? Why should I pay this much for whole life insurance before maxing out my retirement accounts? How much life insurance does your advisor say you need and why that much? What does your advisor say about addressing your student loans or saving for a down payment or college down the road? Do you know if we have any discounts through our residency for disability insurance? How does your advisor recommend allocating our retirement accounts? And ask if they know how much their “advisor” makes if you (or they) buy a whole life insurance policy. I’d think most eyebrows would raise if they knew their advisor would make $30k upfront from the $60k/yr $4 million whole life insurance policy they are about to buy. You don’t have to ask those questions all at once, but over time, they should realize their “advisor” isn’t addressing many (or any any) of them. Then you can tell them even a fat little pig could give better advice than that

The few times I've tried it, the answer to most of these questions is "I don't know, but this is what my advisor recommended and he seems knowledgeable and trustworthy."

The one about how much commission they get is a good one. However, even that is anticipated by most savvy advisors. They just give the client an illustration showing millions of dollars of value in the future and suddenly 30K doesn't seem so bad.