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  • G
    replied
    Originally posted by Tim View Post
    Or a husband or a Dad.
    I mean, of course.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied
    “Actually, that doesn't change at all when you're no longer the junior doc.”
    Or a husband or a Dad. Unsolicited advice is problematic.

    Leave a comment:


  • G
    replied
    Originally posted by DocintheBox View Post
    So I'm a new intern and have had multiple upper-level residents texting myself and the other interns about their "great financial advisor" who works at NWM. I've already helped many of my co-interns set up their 403b and educate them on the different funds we have access to (what funds are, expense ratios, etc.).

    What do you guys recommend in terms of warning people about NWM? I don't want to act like a know-it-all, but I also don't want any of them to get suckered into a WL policy or pay exorbitant fees in exchange for mediocre advice. I don't want to insult any of the upper-level resident's intelligence either since they use the NWM "advisor"
    Agree with S&D to show them the inappropriate whole life policy of the week thread, or just point them to WCI website.

    Otherwise, I would be tread carefully. It is the rare bird in medicine who takes kindly to a junior doc (an intern no less!) pointing out their mistakes and/or challenging their decisions/actions/beliefs.

    Actually, that doesn't change at all when you're no longer the junior doc.

    Leave a comment:


  • jfoxcpacfp
    replied
    Originally posted by DocintheBox View Post
    So I'm a new intern and have had multiple upper-level residents texting myself and the other interns about their "great financial advisor" who works at NWM. I've already helped many of my co-interns set up their 403b and educate them on the different funds we have access to (what funds are, expense ratios, etc.).

    What do you guys recommend in terms of warning people about NWM? I don't want to act like a know-it-all, but I also don't want any of them to get suckered into a WL policy or pay exorbitant fees in exchange for mediocre advice. I don't want to insult any of the upper-level resident's intelligence either since they use the NWM "advisor"
    Tell them that you found a different advisor that they might want to check out and that your advisor has saved you tens of thousands of $$. Them send them links to the forum, the blog, and the book on Amazon.

    Leave a comment:


  • SerrateAndDominate
    replied
    Originally posted by afan View Post

    I still have not evidence that the term policies from this company should be avoided.
    They probably do have some decent term policies. I have no doubt about that, but after sitting through some of their nonsense and also reading enough about their tactics, I'd rather spend my money elsewhere

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied
    “Maybe they will have the best policy for you, maybe not. It is foolish to eliminate a potential good provider for one product because they also sell things you don't need.
    Maybe I got lucky or maybe it never occurred to me that the agent was anything other than a salesperson but I never had a bad experience with the company. The agents were no different, certainly no worse, than any other insurance salespeople.”

    The business model “stinks” in my opinion. The one product that is a commodity is term life insurance. Actuarial tables, monthly premiums and the settlement is nonnegotiable, alive or dead? NWM has no option but to compete on price.
    Do I think “advice” would be reliable? My impression is “advice” is likely not only not fiduciary, but my insurance agent would sell me as much as possible. Why not $3m or $5m? Oh by the way are you married?
    So much is wrong with presenting financial and insurance products without a hint about a products drawbacks, shortcomings, or the option to suggest a better alternative.
    NWM markets through Advisors and Agents. They don’t tell you that they are only salesman to the customers. Clients are basically “marks” to be sold as much as possible. On that basis, I would shop elsewhere as a matter of principle. Price on term insurance is a commodity. The business model is the problem. My perception is that NWM is and adversarial relationship. No thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • afan
    replied
    Originally posted by MPMD View Post

    i know a retired doc (early 70s) who went all in with NWM for their entire career.

    they had a retirement meeting with their "advisor" a few years ago and the final performance after a career with NWM was 4%.

    it's sad, really almost criminal if you ask me. the doc could have literally just done CDs and muni bonds over their career, not paid a dime in commission, and been in almost the same positition.
    I suspect that 4% is life insurance speak. They calculate the return on amounts that are in the cash value, while ignoring the impact of fees and costs of insurance.

    Look, the issue is not, mainly, one particular company. It is a bad product, whole life insurance.
    It is a bad product no matter which company sells it.

    I still have not evidence that the term policies from this company should be avoided.

    Leave a comment:


  • JBME
    replied
    Originally posted by DocintheBox View Post
    So I'm a new intern and have had multiple upper-level residents texting myself and the other interns about their "great financial advisor" who works at NWM. I've already helped many of my co-interns set up their 403b and educate them on the different funds we have access to (what funds are, expense ratios, etc.).

    What do you guys recommend in terms of warning people about NWM? I don't want to act like a know-it-all, but I also don't want any of them to get suckered into a WL policy or pay exorbitant fees in exchange for mediocre advice. I don't want to insult any of the upper-level resident's intelligence either since they use the NWM "advisor"
    they probably aren't going to listen to you. I would just passively mention "hey, have you heard of the white coat investor or physician on fire?" and include a link to their websites. You can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink....

    Leave a comment:


  • MPMD
    replied
    Originally posted by DocintheBox View Post
    So I'm a new intern and have had multiple upper-level residents texting myself and the other interns about their "great financial advisor" who works at NWM. I've already helped many of my co-interns set up their 403b and educate them on the different funds we have access to (what funds are, expense ratios, etc.).

    What do you guys recommend in terms of warning people about NWM? I don't want to act like a know-it-all, but I also don't want any of them to get suckered into a WL policy or pay exorbitant fees in exchange for mediocre advice. I don't want to insult any of the upper-level resident's intelligence either since they use the NWM "advisor"
    i know a retired doc (early 70s) who went all in with NWM for their entire career.

    they had a retirement meeting with their "advisor" a few years ago and the final performance after a career with NWM was 4%.

    it's sad, really almost criminal if you ask me. the doc could have literally just done CDs and muni bonds over their career, not paid a dime in commission, and been in almost the same positition.

    Leave a comment:


  • SerrateAndDominate
    replied
    Originally posted by DocintheBox View Post
    So I'm a new intern and have had multiple upper-level residents texting myself and the other interns about their "great financial advisor" who works at NWM. I've already helped many of my co-interns set up their 403b and educate them on the different funds we have access to (what funds are, expense ratios, etc.).

    What do you guys recommend in terms of warning people about NWM? I don't want to act like a know-it-all, but I also don't want any of them to get suckered into a WL policy or pay exorbitant fees in exchange for mediocre advice. I don't want to insult any of the upper-level resident's intelligence either since they use the NWM "advisor"
    Just send them a link to the Inappropriate Whole Life policy of the day thread. They'll see a recurring theme

    Leave a comment:


  • DocintheBox
    replied
    So I'm a new intern and have had multiple upper-level residents texting myself and the other interns about their "great financial advisor" who works at NWM. I've already helped many of my co-interns set up their 403b and educate them on the different funds we have access to (what funds are, expense ratios, etc.).

    What do you guys recommend in terms of warning people about NWM? I don't want to act like a know-it-all, but I also don't want any of them to get suckered into a WL policy or pay exorbitant fees in exchange for mediocre advice. I don't want to insult any of the upper-level resident's intelligence either since they use the NWM "advisor"

    Leave a comment:


  • 8arclay
    replied
    Absolutely, 100%. If I didn't know better, I would likely have gotten WL at some point too. It's easy to see how someone could get roped into crummy pro. ducts and investments and be blissfully ignorant

    Leave a comment:


  • jfoxcpacfp
    replied
    Originally posted by 8arclay View Post
    I had life and disability through NWM during residency, as I was given the agents contact by a more senior resident who was using them. I had a good experience, the agent was extremely personable and easy to get along with. I never got pitched WL but they mentioned wanting to manage my wealth once an attending.

    The red flag was when I questioned true own occ for the disability, and one of the first things he mentioned was all the "misinformation on websites like WCI". I was an avid WCI reader by that point, but he didn't know that. I switched shortly thereafter
    (Emphasis added above.) Everyone reading this post should understand that businesses like NWM prioritize salesmanship (“extremely personable and easy to get along with”) over knowledge and client benefit. They are not fiduciaries, which means their interests come first. I would have fallen flat on my face at NWM and have gone hungry.

    Leave a comment:


  • afan
    replied
    In my state, the guaranty association covers only $300,000 for life insurance death benefit. That is per life, not per policy. Buying from multiple companies might diversify the risk of the insurer failing but it will not increase the amount of guaranty coverage. Beyond that, one is relying on the financial strength of the company. Those top ratings for NWML count for a product that you may buy years before you need it and for which switching companies later may be difficult or impossible.

    Leave a comment:


  • 8arclay
    replied
    I had life and disability through NWM during residency, as I was given the agents contact by a more senior resident who was using them. I had a good experience, the agent was extremely personable and easy to get along with. I never got pitched WL but they mentioned wanting to manage my wealth once an attending.

    The red flag was when I questioned true own occ for the disability, and one of the first things he mentioned was all the "misinformation on websites like WCI". I was an avid WCI reader by that point, but he didn't know that. I switched shortly thereafter

    Leave a comment:

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