What annual % return have you averaged since 2009?

[cc]

The whole stock market is up since 2009.  My account is up too.  But I was wondering what kind of percentage return others have be able to get on average each year since 2009 by using a financial planner investment portfolio manager.

In particular, I'm curious about returns from those who use financial planners who "manage" the investments and charge a fee for their services.

Curious if those who do pay a fee for a financial planner investment manager reap any better returns than the general market.

 

 

 

[White.Beard.Doc]

Over that shorter time frame, my self managed securities portfolio is up 11.1% per year.  But if you go back to right before the crash a few years before that, my return has been 5.1% per year.  For the answers to your question to be meaningful, you would have to specify a very specific start date.

 

You can likely do much better on your own if you are willing to learn about investing by reading the bogleheads forum.  Paying someone else takes away part of your returns.  If you do want help, hire a fee based financial planner to avoid the asset based fees that typically eat up substantial returns that would otherwise belong to you.

[PhysicianOnFIRE]

The S&P 500 has given us a CAGR of about 17.5% (with dividends reinvested) since the nadir in March of 2009. See calculator here.

I haven't tracked my results that closely, but I would guess I've trailed that slightly, so maybe 15% to 16%. Last year, my portfolio fell short of the S&P 500 by about a half percent.

 

Best,

-PoF

[VagabondMD]

I have no idea. I do not need to compare mine with yours or anyone else's. Mine is working well enough. ?

Everyone here has unique asset allocation and contribution strategies that make apples-to-apples comparisons impossible. If your strategy is helping you achieve your goals, you are doing well.

There is generally no magic that a financial planner will have to create a better return. He or she will usually use the same tools that you can use on your own. A good planner will coach you to behave better, and therein is their greatest value in the investment realm.

There are many other useful things a planner can do for you, but I would not judge their success or failure based on how they fared vs. the S&P 500. In fact, most good planners would have you diversified into small caps, international funds, etc., such that you would almost certainly be trailing the S&P 500 since 2009.

[jfoxcpacfp]

Vagabond MD wrote:

I have no idea. I do not need to compare mine with yours or anyone else’s. Mine is working well enough.

Everyone here has unique asset allocation and contribution strategies that make apples-to-apples comparisons. If your strategy is helping you achieve your goals, you are doing well.

There is generally no magic that a financial planner will have to create a better return. He or she will usually use the same tools that you can use on your own. A good planner will coach you to behave better, and therein is their greatest value in the investment realm.

There are many other useful things a planner can do for you, but I would not judge their success or failure based on how they fared vs. the S&P 500. In fact, most good planners would have you diversified into small caps, international funds, etc., such that you would almost certainly be trailing the S&P 500 since 2009.

Click to expand...

Wow, Vagabond MD, I don't think I could have said it better myself!

[Zaphod]

This would suppose someone was investing and their allocation matched the markets which is highly unlikely. Its an improper comparison to put a 80/20 up against the sp500, doesnt make sense.

[VagabondMD]

jfoxcpacfp wrote:

Vagabond MD wrote:

I have no idea. I do not need to compare mine with yours or anyone else’s. Mine is working well enough.

Everyone here has unique asset allocation and contribution strategies that make apples-to-apples comparisons. If your strategy is helping you achieve your goals, you are doing well.

There is generally no magic that a financial planner will have to create a better return. He or she will usually use the same tools that you can use on your own. A good planner will coach you to behave better, and therein is their greatest value in the investment realm.

There are many other useful things a planner can do for you, but I would not judge their success or failure based on how they fared vs. the S&P 500. In fact, most good planners would have you diversified into small caps, international funds, etc., such that you would almost certainly be trailing the S&P 500 since 2009.

Click to expand…

Wow, Vagabond MD, I don’t think I could have said it better myself!

Click to expand...

Does that mean I earned the selfie? ?

[The White Coat Investor]

I see what you're trying to do, but I think you're going about it the wrong way. Too many confounding variables.

Advisors can certainly boost returns, but they do so by ensuring you have a reasonable plan and trying to get you to improve your investing behavior, not by some magic asset allocation.

So if you're not sure if you have a reasonable plan or if you know you have bad investing behavior, hire an investment manager. The cost, while high, will probably be worth it.

If you can put together a reasonable plan yourself, adequately fund it, and stick with it, the costs of the investment manager will be a drag on your returns.

All that aside, even if you manage the investments yourself, you can still hire help with financial planning, tax planning or preparation, estate planning etc.

At any rate, I have the data to answer the question you actually asked, so here it is:

My annual retirement portfolio returns from 2009 to 2016 are as follows:

33.63%
16.07%
-3.51%
13.87%
19.71%
6.27%
-0.29%
10.72%

That annualizes out to 10.12% per year for a portfolio that has been 75% stocks and 25% bonds. Since inception in 2004, my portfolio has returned an annualized 8.13%, or about 6% after inflation. Good enough, when coupled with my income and savings rate, to meet my goals.

[Dr. Mom]

I am at Schwab.  They have portfolio tools to let me compare to various portfolios allocations to benchmark myself.  I check every year or so to be sure my returns are not out of range.  The tools actually helped me decide to index as the amount of time I was spending to try to beat the market was not worth the small gain I found when I looked at it.  I have never followed average annual returns as that metric holds no use or meaning to me.

[Hatton]

I use Vanguard.  They have a personal performance graph/tool.  You get a monthly graph or you can use a table.  Once your money has been there one year you get your performance percentage.  You can play with the numbers and see the performance for 1 year, 3 years, or some custom amount of time.  They also have a portfolio analysis tool that helps me check my asset allocation and allocate new money.  But cc I agree with others that you should not compare yourself to others or indexes because every situation is different. Personal Capital has something they call the "You Index" which compares your returns to the S&P, Dow, Foreign, and US bonds on a daily basis. As to my return mine is lower than many posters here because I am 65/35.

[Kamban]

Since more than 50% of my investments are in commercial real estate whose valuations are not known until they are sold and estimates are sometimes too rosy, my annual returns are a bit of a black hole.

[janettebournes]

cc wrote:

The whole stock market is up since 2009.  My account is up too.  But I was wondering what kind of percentage return others have be able to get on average each year since 2009 by using a financial planner investment portfolio manager.

In particular, I’m curious about returns from those who use financial planners who “manage” the investments and charge a fee for their services.

Curious if those who do pay a fee for a financial planner investment manager reap any better returns than the general market.

 

 

 

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I also use Vanguard

Since Sept 2014, my 65/35 account is producing returns of 10.9%

In the last year, that number is 14.2%

Like others have noted, I'm not really worried about fluctuations in that number as we make a lot, save a lot, and are hoping for a 30-40 year career. Should be enough to easily reach the finish line.

[ko]

The White Coat Investor wrote:

I see what you’re trying to do, but I think you’re going about it the wrong way. Too many confounding variables.

Advisors can certainly boost returns, but they do so by ensuring you have a reasonable plan and trying to get you to improve your investing behavior, not by some magic asset allocation.

So if you’re not sure if you have a reasonable plan or if you know you have bad investing behavior, hire an investment manager. The cost, while high, will probably be worth it.

If you can put together a reasonable plan yourself, adequately fund it, and stick with it, the costs of the investment manager will be a drag on your returns.

All that aside, even if you manage the investments yourself, you can still hire help with financial planning, tax planning or preparation, estate planning etc.

At any rate, I have the data to answer the question you actually asked, so here it is:

My annual retirement portfolio returns from 2009 to 2016 are as follows:

33.63%
16.07%
-3.51%
13.87%
19.71%
6.27%
-0.29%
10.72%

That annualizes out to 10.12% per year for a portfolio that has been 75% stocks and 25% bonds. Since inception in 2004, my portfolio has returned an annualized 8.13%, or about 6% after inflation. Good enough, when coupled with my income and savings rate, to meet my goals.

Click to expand...

I know this has been discussed in various places, but do you think the next 10 years will look as good? Of course, no one knows, but it seems too good to be true that 6% or 7% real would be in the cards for another 10 years on a  75/25 portfolio. Just curious what people's guesses are on this. Over on the Bogleheads forum people tend to assume the worst is going to always happen and they say they're planing for 2% or 3% real coming up...

This question obviously isn't just for WCI - anyone feel free to weigh in.

[The White Coat Investor]

ko wrote:

The White Coat Investor wrote:

I see what you’re trying to do, but I think you’re going about it the wrong way. Too many confounding variables.

Advisors can certainly boost returns, but they do so by ensuring you have a reasonable plan and trying to get you to improve your investing behavior, not by some magic asset allocation.

So if you’re not sure if you have a reasonable plan or if you know you have bad investing behavior, hire an investment manager. The cost, while high, will probably be worth it.

If you can put together a reasonable plan yourself, adequately fund it, and stick with it, the costs of the investment manager will be a drag on your returns.

All that aside, even if you manage the investments yourself, you can still hire help with financial planning, tax planning or preparation, estate planning etc.

At any rate, I have the data to answer the question you actually asked, so here it is:

My annual retirement portfolio returns from 2009 to 2016 are as follows:

33.63%
16.07%
-3.51%
13.87%
19.71%
6.27%
-0.29%
10.72%

That annualizes out to 10.12% per year for a portfolio that has been 75% stocks and 25% bonds. Since inception in 2004, my portfolio has returned an annualized 8.13%, or about 6% after inflation. Good enough, when coupled with my income and savings rate, to meet my goals.

Click to expand…

I know this has been discussed in various places, but do you think the next 10 years will look as good? Of course, no one knows, but it seems too good to be true that 6% or 7% real would be in the cards for another 10 years on a  75/25 portfolio. Just curious what people’s guesses are on this. Over on the Bogleheads forum people tend to assume the worst is going to always happen and they say they’re planing for 2% or 3% real coming up…

This question obviously isn’t just for WCI – anyone feel free to weigh in.

Click to expand...

I have no idea. But if the next 10 years suck, it's likely the 10 after that will be better. I just make sure I get what the market offers.