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Young and rich and not focused on a legacy- do we need a financial advisor?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Kamban View Post

    None of these make any sense. Maybe Number 2 a bit, but all the others are bull.

    Please, please don't choose AUM model. Maybe a fee only planner. Or one like Johanna who charges a set annual fee for periodic reviews. But with 4 young children and $15M you need an estate planner who is an attorney and can work with an accountant.

    Truly appreciate your mention,Kamban but do want to clarify that we are 100% “fee only”. There are many variations but it all gets down to not receiving income from anyone other than your client - even for referral relationships - and stating that explicitly with a signature from the advisor/advisory firm.

    For education purposes, non-AUM fee-only advisors will manage lower amounts of investments if they d/n charge a separate AUM fee specific to the management of those investments and/or d/n include financial planning in the AUM fee. For example, the majority of our planning clients are “Basic Tier” and pay for financial planning advice including comprehensive ongoing planning and investment recommendations and education that the client implements. No slight intended for other models of fee-only planning services, this is simply a clarification of how we have chosen to charge.

    On another note, I honestly do not know what “you have won the game” means. Again, no slight intended, I just happen to be quite literal. It has gotten me in trouble many times in my life (including in my career.) This is the 1st time I have ever found a use for that particular emoji and I’m still not sure if I’m satisfied with it lol. Wish Jim or his web boss would add more variety!
    Our passion is protecting clients and others from predatory advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

    Comment


    • #32
      I was a little surprised going through this exercise and actually looking at the #s:

      1) Based on the average AUM/client of these recommended flat-fee advisors, many of the clients would actually be paying an advisor less based on AUM.
      2) Many of these flat-fee advisors raised their fees over the past year.
      3) The lowest fees are the firms with the fewest clients and potentially interest?
      4) The exception is Physician Family Financial Advisors who seems like a great bargain.

      People on here get so caught up in citing high AUM fees down the road at $2-3+ million yet apparently don’t care about paying more every year to a flat-fee advisor earlier on. On top of that, based on the average AUM/client at these firms, higher net worth clients aren’t working with them, so these firms would make even less by charging based on AUM.

      It’s really smart to advertise here, promote being flat-fee, and then charge more than you otherwise would make based on AUM for many years with the full support of the community here.

      Certainly not trying to discredit any of these firms since I don’t know many of them and they may all be really great firms, but I don’t get why flat-fee is this utopia fee structure. Maybe it turns out that I just need to be a better businessman

      Andrew Musbach, CFP® | Co-Founder & Financial Advisor at MD Wealth Management, LLC | Podcast Host - The Physician's Guide to Financial Wellness

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Andrew Musbach View Post
        7) Mayport Wealth Management (flat fees are still tiered based on AUM):
        - $111,424,763 in AUM for 34 clients
        - The fees are $5,000 to $20,000 in annual fees or offer hourly services from $250-500/hr
        Um... yeah. I want this guy's clients.
        The rest of you are doing it wrong.
        “Work” is a four letter word for good reason.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Andrew Musbach View Post
          I know I am likely speaking to an annoyed forum, but I'm genuinely not trying to be self-serving here with my points and instead just lay out the reality to help people from spinning their wheels and at least understand their options.

          Johanna is a fantastic advisor, which is why she's at capacity and no longer able to take on new clients right now (I know this may change in the future).

          After Johanna, just my opinion, but I think it'd be helpful to at least list specific recommendations of at least a rough pecking order of actual flat-fee firms/advisors to check out where physicians have had a good experience or heard of people having a good experience.

          Maybe that is just point back to the recommended advisors on the site, which I checked below because now I am curious

          I listed all the firms that having nothing to do with AUM (at least based on the description in the recommended advisors section), which hopefully can be a helpful guide/you all can see how all the "ideal" flat-fee recommended advisors on here charge for a comparison:

          1) Physician Family Financial Advisors:
          -
          Manage $115,000,000 for 109 clients
          - The fees are $165/mo on low-end and up to $615/mo on high-end

          2) Panoramic Financial Advice (it says flat-fee, but in the ADV there is an AUM fee):
          - Manage $14,526,125 with 74 clients
          - The fees are $3k - $12k + upfront fee of $600 to $2,400. Also offer hourly at $400/hr. AUM = 1% for first $1,000,000 and .25% for everything after.

          3) Fox & Company:
          - Mange $32,734,400 for 115 clients
          - The fees are $1-2k setup fee + $5,000/yr to $15,000/yr. There is an AUM fee in the ADV, but that must just be for old legacy clients.

          4) Wealthkeel:
          -
          A part of a brokerdealer, so hard to see AUM or # of clients.
          - The fees are $1,500 upfront and then from $3,600/yr to $13,200 (based on Net Worth and a longer calculation)

          5) Forward Thinking Wealth Management:
          - Manage $11,547,000 for 28 clients.
          - The fees are $8,400/yr to $10,000/yr + an additional .20-.40% fund fee paid to a third party manager deducted from client's account.

          6) FPL Capital Management - (it says flat fee, but they charge a flat-fee based on AUM)
          - $540,592,096 discretionary + non-discretionary with 185 clients
          - Basic investment management fee (no financial planning) = $1,000 on low end to $10,000 on high-end
          - Concierge wealth management = $5,000 to $25,000 of annual fees
          - Family office services = $25,000 to $50,000 of annual fees

          7) Mayport Wealth Management (flat fees are still tiered based on AUM):
          - $111,424,763 in AUM for 34 clients
          - The fees are $5,000 to $20,000 in annual fees or offer hourly services from $250-500/hr

          8) Olson Consulting:
          - $0 AUM with 3 clients
          - The fees are $1,200/yr to $3,600/yr

          9) Plumtree Financial Planning:
          - $0 AUM with 50 clients
          - The fees are $1,800/yr to $12,000/yr or $250/hr

          10) RFK Capital Management:
          - $0 AUM with 30 clients
          - The fees are a one-time DIY charge of $1,800 with ongoing hourly work for $150/hr

          11) Solari Financial
          - $3,900,901 discretionary AUM with 6 clients + 49 clients helped throughout the year
          - The fees are $3,000 to $10,000 per year (but may be as much as $25,000 in some cases) and hourly of $150 to $300.

          12) SwitchPoint Financial Planning
          - $44,600,000 of AUM with 34 clients + 8 clients helped throughout the year
          - The fees are $4,800 to $8,400 per year ($150/hr)

          13) Fisher Financial Strategies
          - $0 AUM with 57 clients
          - The fees are up to $250/hr
          14) read the internet for free and figure it out.

          Comment


          • #35
            I have a fee structure that fatlittlepig would entertain.
            1- financial advisors management results in less returns than S&P, they get $0 and have to write a letter of apology
            2- financial advisors management results in same returns as S&P, they get nominal fee
            3- financial advisors management results in beating S&P, they get 10-20% of the profit.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Andrew Musbach View Post
              I know I am likely speaking to an annoyed forum, but I'm genuinely not trying to be self-serving here with my points and instead just lay out the reality to help people from spinning their wheels and at least understand their options.

              Johanna is a fantastic advisor, which is why she's at capacity and no longer able to take on new clients right now (I know this may change in the future).
              Andrew - you are very kind and your compliment means a lot, coming from you. Thank you for putting this list together and I hope it will help both participants and lurkers wade through the quagmire of all of the listings under Recommended FAs. I suppose I should review it to know our competitors but I don’t have a long enough attention span. Ugh.

              One minor correction to offer, which I know was not intentional on your part:
              • We are taking new financial planning clients (at least, for the very near future). They go active in the latter half of October.
              • Our CPA FIRM closes to new CPA CLIENTS from 10/1 - 4/30 of the following year. This is featured prominently on our website. We are reaching out those who schedule in October to accommodate anyone who would like to be moved to September.
              I realize our setup can be confusing to many of you who try to figure out who and what we are. We have 2 separate firms, both in the same building, and I have a different partner in each. My office is literally in the center of the building and has 2 doors - one opening to the CPA firm, the other opening to the FP firm. I work .75 for each (think about it).

              Believe it or not, very few doctors in a 100-mile radius are aware of WCI so the overwhelming majority of our clients are from other states. And the ones who are within a 30-mile radius still choose to meet virtually; even before Covid, but especially now, as our physical office has been closed to the public for 5 mos. (I may not ever go back to wearing “dress” pants. Jeans rule.)

              Our passion is protecting clients and others from predatory advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

              Comment


              • #37
                Lithium Ha - when are we starting Lithium Wealth Management?

                Lordosis hard to beat free, which is why I love this site and google, CFP(r).

                fatlittlepig - just sent you our client agreement, but my apology letter is going to be short, so don’t get your hopes up.
                Andrew Musbach, CFP® | Co-Founder & Financial Advisor at MD Wealth Management, LLC | Podcast Host - The Physician's Guide to Financial Wellness

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by jfoxcpacfp View Post

                  Andrew - you are very kind and your compliment means a lot, coming from you. Thank you for putting this list together and I hope it will help both participants and lurkers wade through the quagmire of all of the listings under Recommended FAs. I suppose I should review it to know our competitors but I don’t have a long enough attention span. Ugh.

                  One minor correction to offer, which I know was not intentional on your part:
                  • We are taking new financial planning clients (at least, for the very near future). They go active in the latter half of October.
                  • Our CPA FIRM closes to new CPA CLIENTS from 10/1 - 4/30 of the following year. This is featured prominently on our website. We are reaching out those who schedule in October to accommodate anyone who would like to be moved to September.
                  I realize our setup can be confusing to many of you who try to figure out who and what we are. We have 2 separate firms, both in the same building, and I have a different partner in each. My office is literally in the center of the building and has 2 doors - one opening to the CPA firm, the other opening to the FP firm. I work .75 for each (think about it).

                  Believe it or not, very few doctors in a 100-mile radius are aware of WCI so the overwhelming majority of our clients are from other states. And the ones who are within a 30-mile radius still choose to meet virtually; even before Covid, but especially now, as our physical office has been closed to the public for 5 mos. (I may not ever go back to wearing “dress” pants. Jeans rule.)
                  Ah, thanks for clarifying, and yes, unintentional

                  I’m happy to hear that!

                  LIFEISBEAUTIFUL - Not trying to join team hate “AUM” but you’d be getting a great bargain working with Johanna and I honestly think it’d be worth at least taking with her in your search as others have mentioned. Also, I realize I sound like that annoying third grader that was a teachers pet here, so I’ll stop just talking about how great Johanna is
                  Andrew Musbach, CFP® | Co-Founder & Financial Advisor at MD Wealth Management, LLC | Podcast Host - The Physician's Guide to Financial Wellness

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Andrew Musbach View Post
                    I know I am likely speaking to an annoyed forum, but I'm genuinely not trying to be self-serving here with my points and instead just lay out the reality to help people from spinning their wheels and at least understand their options.

                    Johanna is a fantastic advisor, which is why she's at capacity and no longer able to take on new clients right now (I know this may change in the future).

                    After Johanna, just my opinion, but I think it'd be helpful to at least list specific recommendations of at least a rough pecking order of actual flat-fee firms/advisors to check out where physicians have had a good experience or heard of people having a good experience.

                    Maybe that is just point back to the recommended advisors on the site, which I checked below because now I am curious

                    I listed all the firms that having nothing to do with AUM (at least based on the description in the recommended advisors section), which hopefully can be a helpful guide/you all can see how all the "ideal" flat-fee recommended advisors on here charge for a comparison:

                    1) Physician Family Financial Advisors:
                    -
                    Manage $115,000,000 for 109 clients
                    - The fees are $165/mo on low-end and up to $615/mo on high-end

                    2) Panoramic Financial Advice (it says flat-fee, but in the ADV there is an AUM fee):
                    - Manage $14,526,125 with 74 clients
                    - The fees are $3k - $12k + upfront fee of $600 to $2,400. Also offer hourly at $400/hr. AUM = 1% for first $1,000,000 and .25% for everything after.

                    3) Fox & Company:
                    - Mange $32,734,400 for 115 clients
                    - The fees are $1-2k setup fee + $5,000/yr to $15,000/yr. There is an AUM fee in the ADV, but that must just be for old legacy clients.

                    4) Wealthkeel:
                    -
                    A part of a brokerdealer, so hard to see AUM or # of clients.
                    - The fees are $1,500 upfront and then from $3,600/yr to $13,200 (based on Net Worth and a longer calculation)

                    5) Forward Thinking Wealth Management:
                    - Manage $11,547,000 for 28 clients.
                    - The fees are $8,400/yr to $10,000/yr + an additional .20-.40% fund fee paid to a third party manager deducted from client's account.

                    6) FPL Capital Management - (it says flat fee, but they charge a flat-fee based on AUM)
                    - $540,592,096 discretionary + non-discretionary with 185 clients
                    - Basic investment management fee (no financial planning) = $1,000 on low end to $10,000 on high-end
                    - Concierge wealth management = $5,000 to $25,000 of annual fees
                    - Family office services = $25,000 to $50,000 of annual fees

                    7) Mayport Wealth Management (flat fees are still tiered based on AUM):
                    - $111,424,763 in AUM for 34 clients
                    - The fees are $5,000 to $20,000 in annual fees or offer hourly services from $250-500/hr

                    8) Olson Consulting:
                    - $0 AUM with 3 clients
                    - The fees are $1,200/yr to $3,600/yr

                    9) Plumtree Financial Planning:
                    - $0 AUM with 50 clients
                    - The fees are $1,800/yr to $12,000/yr or $250/hr

                    10) RFK Capital Management:
                    - $0 AUM with 30 clients
                    - The fees are a one-time DIY charge of $1,800 with ongoing hourly work for $150/hr

                    11) Solari Financial
                    - $3,900,901 discretionary AUM with 6 clients + 49 clients helped throughout the year
                    - The fees are $3,000 to $10,000 per year (but may be as much as $25,000 in some cases) and hourly of $150 to $300.

                    12) SwitchPoint Financial Planning
                    - $44,600,000 of AUM with 34 clients + 8 clients helped throughout the year
                    - The fees are $4,800 to $8,400 per year ($150/hr)

                    13) Fisher Financial Strategies
                    - $0 AUM with 57 clients
                    - The fees are up to $250/hr
                    @AndrewMusbach

                    I work for FPL Capital Management. Our firm was mentioned in your response above. You are incorrect in your assessment of how we charge our fees. Our flat fee is not based on AUM. Our fee is based on the level of service required by the client. Not sure how you came to this conclusion, but please refrain from commenting on our firm (or any other firm) if you do not know all the details. Thank you!

                    Sincerely,
                    Virajith

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Virajith Wijeweera View Post

                      @AndrewMusbach

                      I work for FPL Capital Management. Our firm was mentioned in your response above. You are incorrect in your assessment of how we charge our fees. Our flat fee is not based on AUM. Our fee is based on the level of service required by the client. Not sure how you came to this conclusion, but please refrain from commenting on our firm (or any other firm) if you do not know all the details. Thank you!

                      Sincerely,
                      Virajith
                      Probably the best way to find out fees is to check out your proposed investment advisor on FINRA's BrokerCheck, then look up the company's fees on their ADV-2 on the SEC's website. For instance, as of today this was the most recent ADV-2 for FPL Capital Management. In this case, it looks like FPL's maximum annualized fees for Asset Management services doubled from $5,000 to $10,000 from their previous ADV-2 in January, 2019.

                      For those who aren't familiar with the ADV-2, here's how to read an ADV-2.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Virajith Wijeweera View Post

                        @AndrewMusbach

                        I work for FPL Capital Management. Our firm was mentioned in your response above. You are incorrect in your assessment of how we charge our fees. Our flat fee is not based on AUM. Our fee is based on the level of service required by the client. Not sure how you came to this conclusion, but please refrain from commenting on our firm (or any other firm) if you do not know all the details. Thank you!

                        Sincerely,
                        Virajith
                        Hi Virajith,

                        I apologize if I stated anything incorrectly! I was simply trying to summarize each firm's ADV to hopefully help people compare fees. Here is where I found the information from your ADV, but please feel free to correct where I was incorrect.

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	ADV.JPG
Views:	199
Size:	102.1 KB
ID:	235113
                        Andrew Musbach, CFP® | Co-Founder & Financial Advisor at MD Wealth Management, LLC | Podcast Host - The Physician's Guide to Financial Wellness

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Hatton View Post
                          Congrats. You need a great accountant. Maybe there is a way to minimize the tax on that lump sum. I would put the money into money fund while you figure this out. What you do not need is an AUM advisor. 1% of 15 million is a chunk of change. You could use a fee only advisor. You could get a financial plan from Vanguard. They will manage your money for 0.3. The poster Tangler just got advice from Rick Ferri (google him) for $750 dollars. There is no need to panic. You need to take your time and do this right. There are plenty of people who will try to take this from you. You need to be skeptical. There is no reason to buy a bunch of complex hedge fund type products. If this was me I would do plain vanilla indexes VTIAX, VTSAX, and VTEAX. Consider a nicer house. My neighbor just sold his company for 30 million. He bought a beach house and is still working.
                          Rick Ferri is outstanding.
                          I was very happy with his help.
                          https://rickferri.com/investors/


                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Couple of months? You have couple of years. Think parking it in a 3 fund account would be perfectly fine for safe keeping and getting something.
                            Find a feel only financial planner. The value here is basically laying out what you want to accomplish and how to spend your life.
                            Financial Planner - This will focus on your life goal which are the most important.
                            CPA for tax planning - You have a tax bill this year and some potential ideas (like government bonds or muni's) and longer term issues) and charitable trust ideas
                            Estate Attorney - Once you have a picture where your going with this, then you can discuss.
                            Insurance Agent - You need to up your umbrella.
                            Try to keep yourselves on a reasonable monthly budget until you know where your life is going. Slow and easy and enjoy the ride.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Virajith Wijeweera View Post

                              @AndrewMusbach

                              I work for FPL Capital Management. Our firm was mentioned in your response above. You are incorrect in your assessment of how we charge our fees. Our flat fee is not based on AUM. Our fee is based on the level of service required by the client. Not sure how you came to this conclusion, but please refrain from commenting on our firm (or any other firm) if you do not know all the details. Thank you!

                              Sincerely,
                              Virajith
                              You or your firm seem to have a huge chip on your shoulders with your last comment. I don't think you have a right to tell others if they should comment on your firm or any other firm or not.

                              Maybe a nicer way to attract clients would be to detail your fee structure clearly so that we can understand it better than making that standoffish comment. Or maybe you don't want your true fee structure to be revealed.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Looks like they charge an annual flat fee for services depending on what service and level of service, but also have a separate AUM portfolio that charges 50 bp AUM for under $1M. As least that's how I interpret the above

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