LegalZoom vs Attorney

[gap55u]

So… when going through a divorce with minor children I wanted something basic to cover me. And I wanted a Living Trust due to minor children (and to let me put another 10k in ibond).

I used NOLO’s living trust and Will books from the library with their online forms to make a straightforward Living Trust and pour over will (what isn’t specifically defined in the trust goes to the will). Total cost: time spent reading the book and $10 to get the will and trust notarized.

My circumstances are simple - w2, taxable, 401k, ira’s, mortgage. NW in $1-5M range. Provision for who is guardian and who is trustee for my kids trusts.

I was truly shocked when I met with a reputable estate attorney who said it was worded a little differently than he would have done, but it was fine. I expected to pay $2-6k.

I don’t live in Texas - so maybe there are some state-specific reasons to specifically need a lawyer for straightforward estates.

[Tim]

The reality is that the only real test is after the test of time. The wording that allows flexibility but protection was our problem with kids.
Funds to be used for the kids benefit without burdening the guardians. Guardians need a room addition? Guardians taking advantage or does the additional kid actually stretch the resources? You can keep it as loose as you want.

Bottom line: no correct answer.

[bean1970]

i'm sure you realized LegalZoom has lawyers. you can add to your package. You get assigned state specific lawyer.

[Larry Ragman]

Can you elaborate on why it was declared invalid? Was it something complex? My will basically says everything goes to this person, if that person is dead, it goes in equal shaves to X, Y, and Z. End of story. How would something that straight forward be invalidated?

It just had wording that was inappropriate for the state because the decedent chose an incorrect format. Every state has specific ways that valid wills have to be written. It isn’t rocket science but the right wording is enforced by probate courts. Think of it as job security for lawyers. None of that means legal zoom or other software written wills aren’t fine. They are if you choose the correct state in the set up. In my answer above I was just offering a caution that the complicated part of trusts isn’t the write up, it is in what provisions are selected to be included.

[jfoxcpacfp]

from asking around, it seems like the costs gets up to the 5-8k range when a trust is created. I guess this is a question for a lawyer, but if ALL my accounts have beneficiaries assigned, then the only other asset I’ll have to consider is my house. I live in Texas, and I understand the house can go through probate then, which in texas is relatively straightforward. So then what’s the purpose of the Trust?
if I want to put provisions for my daughter, such as, she can’t bum around with no job at 25 with no college degree and expect to get a lump sum money, I can put these provisions in Last Will as well.

thoughts?

Costs definitely go up when trust is created but, for a RLT, it’s usually boilerplate and the main cost is for the attorney’s assistance in retitling assets into the RLT, and they’re not always good even about that piece. I keep a rather long list of reputable atty’s in TX (and most states) who charge a reasonable fee for good work and (based on feedback from clients and CFPs in TX), I still say $5-$8k is too high for a basic LWT with RLT. No reason you have to visit the office of a high-priced firm in a large city any longer. Find a firm that is comfortable with Zoom and has an experienced atty who is willing to work on a more relaxed schedule than many “old school” (stodgy) firms will allow. I believe you’re overthinking this but, if you can afford the costs and are willing to pay for piece of mind, just do it.

[gap55u]

The main cost is for the attorney’s assistance in retitling assets into the RLT, and they’re not always good even about that piece.

I think I did it right: deed to home - RLT. All accounts that can have RLT as beneficiary do. Treasury Direct, by the way, requires a person, not a trust, as beneficiary.
A not-awesome financial advisor told me my taxable brokerage account needed to be titled in name of RLT. But accountant said that as long as RLT was the beneficiary, that was fine - less paperwork.

All told, all of the beneficiary work was tedious, but all if it was stuff I did online. At the time, I didn't own a house (no deed to redo) and had a car loan (no title). Should vehicle titles be held in the name of the RLT?

[invenio]

It just had wording that was inappropriate for the state because the decedent chose an incorrect format. Every state has specific ways that valid wills have to be written. It isn’t rocket science but the right wording is enforced by probate courts. Think of it as job security for lawyers. None of that means legal zoom or other software written wills aren’t fine. They are if you choose the correct state in the set up. In my answer above I was just offering a caution that the complicated part of trusts isn’t the write up, it is in what provisions are selected to be included.

The first question that the software asks you is what state you live in. I view this like tax software. As long as you put the right numbers in, it should be pretty simple.

Again, maybe I am naïve, but I actually like the software better than speaking with lawyers. I think for something very simple and direct it should be fine. At least it is a consideration for those with simple estate planning needs.

[DollaDollaBillS$$$]

I laugh at this group. "oh you have .......xyz......... medical issue you need to see a specialist". but any other area of life, "you shouldn't pay for that! what could they possibly know that a computer program doesn't know." if that's the case, most people should be using google to treat their medical conditions and not paying for medical consults to save a few bucks!!


you are high income high net worth individuals. protect your progeny and your estate after your demise. Don't do this on a DIY basis, too many complexities especially for high net worth individuals. Don't use just any attorney, you need an attorney that specializes in estate planning and that has been doing it for many years because you don't know what you dont know. There are so many intricacies.
Death and money bring out the worst in people. there are ways to try and mitigate this, (you can never 100% eliminate) through your legal documents and a good estate planning attorney, that has seen numerous scenarios, has ways to minimize if not eliminate the vast majority of problems.
if you want some examples of things to try and mitigate, read a book on estate planning before you set it up as a way to look at all the pros/cons and issues that can arise. example: "Beyond the Grave" by Jeffrey Condon. he talks about issues that even he never saw coming up over the years of doing estate planning. it will open your eyes to the complexity of these legal documents.

[Larry Ragman]

The first question that the software asks you is what state you live in. I view this like tax software. As long as you put the right numbers in, it should be pretty simple.

Again, maybe I am naïve, but I actually like the software better than speaking with lawyers. I think for something very simple and direct it should be fine. At least it is a consideration for those with simple estate planning needs.

I am with you on this for a will. As I said earlier that is how I would have gone except my wife preferred the assurance of a lawyer and we had one we trusted. Trusts are a bit more complicated unless you literally want the cookie cutter solution.