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Divorce vs Post nup

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  • SerrateAndDominate
    replied




    Copy all financial documents. Store them at a safe deposit at a new bank. Document everything in a journal with a stitched binding in ink and sign/date/time every entry. Be factual just as you would at work.

     
    Click to expand...


    Agree but also utilize Dropbox or a cloud storage service. Easy to snap a photo and upload to these as well.

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  • GraceisOTL
    replied
    Copy all financial documents. Store them at a safe deposit at a new bank. Document everything in a journal with a stitched binding in ink and sign/date/time every entry. Be factual just as you would at work.

    Remember, never threaten divorce. Get your ducks in a row and serve him with papers. Make sure you know when he will be served so you can have a third party at the house or be elsewhere with the children when he returns for the day.

    Leave a comment:


  • Equanimity
    replied
    To all the members who have taken the time to understand and respond, thank you ! Simple and kind words do make a difference, especially to the one who feels like they are drowning. It is nice to hear different opinions from colleagues on a respected forum.

    I will be starting the process and may not be able to update for obvious reasons.

    Will come back when I need more advice.

    To those who may be in similar situations, please learn from others mistakes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Equanimity
    replied
    Thank you. I could not stop the tears.

     

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  • redpatokasea
    replied






    One day you finally knew
    what you had to do, and began,
    though the voices around you
    kept shouting
    their bad advice – – –
    though the whole house
    began to tremble
    and you felt the old tug
    at your ankles.
    ‘Mend my life!’
    each voice cried.
    But you didn’t stop.


    You knew what you had to do,
    though the wind pried
    with its stiff fingers
    at the very foundations – – –
    though their melancholy
    was terrible. It was already late
    enough, and a wild night,
    and the road full of fallen
    branches and stones.


    But little by little,
    as you left their voices behind,
    the stars began to burn
    through the sheets of clouds,
    and there was a new voice,
    which you slowly
    recognized as your own,
    that kept you company
    as you strode deeper and deeper
    into the world,
    determined to do
    the only thing you could do – – –  determined to save
    the only life you could save.



    Leave a comment:


  • MPMD
    replied




    I’m so sorry OP. I’m a psychiatrist, I’ve seen a lot of people in a lot of different situations. Honestly your post has me nervous for your safety. He sounds to me like he’s got antisocial PD rather than borderline PD, but clearly I can’t make a diagnosis from an internet post. Regardless I would get your ducks in a row (lawyer) and make sure someone is with you when you tell him. He does not have a gun? I’m not sure what other people read to think the issues in the marriage are just financial or that this is a relationship worth saving for the sake of the kids but you need to get out as there is clearly abuse going on here. And worry about the finances later. Stay safe and good luck moving forward.
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    If you are thinking of staying, one of the authors also wrote :
    It relates more to Borderline traits/PD than Narcissistic PD. The classic pairing is between someone with borderline traits and someone with narcissistic traits, but this may not be the case.

    I tend to think things are clear/formula based with financial settlement %,depending on jurisdiction, mainly based on custody. So when things go through the family court, often one or both parties has a PD. The family court for better or worse seems to have level 9 power level and can seemingly access trusts or retirement accounts. Have no idea what a post-nup is and whether it would be worth the paper it is written on. Even a pre-nup may not be worth much if you have children. A divorce lawyer would be best placed to answer these questions.

    Have you decided are you staying or leaving? If there is domestic violence, consider planing a safe exit. Get a good lawyer, have a support network etc.

    Good to get professional support. Be aware anything can be subpoena if it goes through court. Even probably internet if it can be identified (unlikely, but presumably it is possible).

    Good luck with it all.
    Click to expand...


    Not a psych professional so defer to more skilled voices but PD seems undeniable here based on limited info, just question of which one.

    Leave a comment:


  • SerrateAndDominate
    replied
    Document everything.

     

    Sorry that you're going through this. Divorce has happened a lot in my family so I can relate.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied
    “You have likely told yourself you can change him. You can’t.” hatton1 pointed out your biggest advantage. Some pointed out some judgements whether it’s financial or emotional abuse. That is not the issue. You have a right to end the marriage. The court may appoint an attorney for the kids, one for each parent and the whatever child psychologist each attorney chooses etc.
    He will use the children as a bargaining chip. You need an attorney to set this up.
    He will exit a “winner”, without a spouse or his kids.
    On to the next “investment”.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hatton
    replied
    Looks like some good references from Dontknowmind.  FWIW your husband sounds a lot like my ex.  These men are toxic.  Divorce is the best option.  Remember he is likely to turn violent when you walk out the door.  Do it when he is not home.  You have likely told yourself you can change him.  You can't.  I got my ex to sign the divorce papers by offering him some property that I knew he wanted IF he signed in the next 10 days.  It worked.  A narcissist likes to think he is the smartest person in the room.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dont_know_mind
    replied
    https://www.amazon.com/Splitting-Protecting-Borderline-Narcissistic-Personality/dp/1608820254

    If you are thinking of staying, one of the authors also wrote :
    https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901

    It relates more to Borderline traits/PD than Narcissistic PD. The classic pairing is between someone with borderline traits and someone with narcissistic traits, but this may not be the case.

    I tend to think things are clear/formula based with financial settlement %,depending on jurisdiction, mainly based on custody. So when things go through the family court, often one or both parties has a PD. The family court for better or worse seems to have level 9 power level and can seemingly access trusts or retirement accounts. Have no idea what a post-nup is and whether it would be worth the paper it is written on. Even a pre-nup may not be worth much if you have children. A divorce lawyer would be best placed to answer these questions.

    Have you decided are you staying or leaving? If there is domestic violence, consider planing a safe exit. Get a good lawyer, have a support network etc.

    Good to get professional support. Be aware anything can be subpoena if it goes through court. Even probably internet if it can be identified (unlikely, but presumably it is possible).

    Good luck with it all.



    Leave a comment:


  • wideopenspaces
    replied
    I'm so sorry OP. I'm a psychiatrist, I've seen a lot of people in a lot of different situations. Honestly your post has me nervous for your safety. He sounds to me like he's got antisocial PD rather than borderline PD, but clearly I can't make a diagnosis from an internet post. Regardless I would get your ducks in a row (lawyer) and make sure someone is with you when you tell him. He does not have a gun? I'm not sure what other people read to think the issues in the marriage are just financial or that this is a relationship worth saving for the sake of the kids but you need to get out as there is clearly abuse going on here. And worry about the finances later. Stay safe and good luck moving forward.

    Leave a comment:


  • RosieQ
    replied
    Good advice above. I would also recommend having at least one good individual credit card in your name in case your credit goes down substantially. Then freeze your credit with all agencies so no new accounts and debts can be taken out in your name. Also be sure to keep meticulous records and print/store all recent financial transactions to document (or at least argue) who was responsible for debt and various poor financial decisions. I wish you the best of luck.

    Leave a comment:


  • pulpsnatcher
    replied
    I can add very little as others have given good advice.  However, one thing to consider, just as when terminating an employee, when breaking decisive news, declare your decision as a matter of fact and in NO WAY is it up for negotiation.  Stay strong

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied
    You are correct that this separation may turn out to be drawn out and difficult.
    In a divorce, you have three issues to contend with:
    1) Ending the marriage
    2) Property split financial obligations
    3) The children
    Living your life the way it is, is unfulfilling . You on your own considered a post nup purely to protect your financial well being. Numbers 1) and 3) continue. Would that approach lead to you are simply a “cold hearted calculating money grubbing lady”? Just because he has made financial choices that deem imprudent, he doesn’t seem to be any different than when you married. You call him a master manipulator, he just enjoys getting along with people and socializing. For better or worse.

    My point is ,depending on your state, you really need legal advice. Johanna’s suggestion of the financial advisor that deals with these issues is valuable. Divorce is not fair by any means. Situations happen where retirement assets are forfeited, kids taken out of state with limited visitation and child support due until 18.
    That will be the target of the attorney hired by your husband. The loving faithful husband and father might be what many others see.

    Bluntly, the best course is a negotiated settlement of all 3. Yes, you may be 100% correct that he simply married for money and spends foolishly. The attorney fees will go on indefinitely until every penny and then some is gone.
    Don’t give up shared custody so fast. What did you get from that? Even a negotiated settlement is war.

    Good luck and don’t even think of conceding one thing without a complete agreement.

    Leave a comment:


  • trebizond
    replied
    To be a perhaps lone dissenting voice, it seems like you no longer love or respect this person and it goes well beyond finances?

    If you think there is something that counseling and meeting with a financial advisor/counselor could help/fix, then by all means do so, because the divorce will be way harder than fixing some financial issues. If there's something deeper than this that is not fixable, then you have a classic divorce scenario.

    You need to find a divorce/family lawyer, and also have realistic expectations of what can be done in the absence of a prenuptial agreement or if the income is highly asymmetric (i.e. you're the breadwinner). If there is not abuse of the children and the father and children have a close relationship, there is not great grounds to have the expectation that a joint custody model or another one in which the children spend significant time with their father is going to be abandoned in favor of awarding you sole custody.

     

    Feel free to ignore the below, just my personal perspective and in response to what some other people have said:

    As someone whose parents nearly divorced and had plenty of reason to, yet did not end up doing so - and who did not have a particularly love-filled marriage, I can give an alternative perspective and say that I am much happier that they stayed together. We had many fruitful years together and I grew much closer to my father after the near-divorce. I know that had the divorce gone through, we would have grown very distant indeed and things may have ended up worse for multiple people in the family.

    I understand that individual/parental happiness and fulfillment is important, and that there are circumstances where continued marriage is untenable. But there's no point in deluding ourselves that divorce somehow makes the children happier in a universal fashion. In most cases, it does not, it complicates life, it fractures a family.

    Leave a comment:

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