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tenants by the entirety

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  • afan
    replied
    Whether a car can be held as TBE depends on your state. Our estates and trusts attorney told us that it would not matter whether the cars were held in individual names or jointly. Again, depends on your state.

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  • Steven Podnos MD CFP
    replied
    Your car is perhaps the most important asset NOT to title ATBE. You want to separate automobile liability from each other-if the car is titled ATBE then you are both exposed to any auto liability both solely and jointly

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  • Zmcallen
    replied
    Does a “tenants by the entirety” equivalent exist for car ownership? In other words, if I title my car under both my and my wife’s name, does that afford some greater degree of asset protection?

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  • afan
    replied
    The effect of TBE depends on the laws of your state. Some states do not recognize it at all. There, as best I can tell, TBE is the same as JTWROS.

    In some states the asset protection of TBE applies only the family home, not to any other property, real or otherwise. You could title your brokerage account as TBE but it would provide no more protection than JTWROS.

    In some states you can get asset protection by titling other assets as TBE.

    Before going through any trouble retitling, find out the laws in your state. You might be accomplishing nothing by making the switch.

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  • jfoxcpacfp
    replied
    Originally posted by altadoc View Post
    Also, the more I think about this, complicated estate and asset protection plans usually benefit... (wait for it) the attorney. Maybe I am being too pessimistic, but there aren't a lot of great legal rationales for the plan suggested above.
    Yeah, I agree. That’s not the vibe I’ve gotten from this attorney. She seems very down-to-earth and personable, as are most (of the few) Alaskans I’ve I’ve worked with and/or met. But I’ll be the first to admit my radar doesn’t always work😅.

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  • altadoc
    replied
    Also, the more I think about this, complicated estate and asset protection plans usually benefit... (wait for it) the attorney. Maybe I am being too pessimistic, but there aren't a lot of great legal rationales for the plan suggested above.

    Leave a comment:


  • altadoc
    replied
    I'm very curious to hear that advice coming from an attorney. It may have something to do with Alaska being an (opt-in) community property state. I'd push the attorney and ask why they are advocating for that decision. It could be a way to protect those assets from creditors while also ensuring if there is a divorce, the property is split equally. That is not going to be the case in community property states. In community property, the name of the title is the owner of the property. Period.

    Looking at the data on med mal, the likelihood of a plaintiff's settlement is low if a physician is sued. The chances of paying higher than med mal insurance limits are exceedingly rare. While rates of divorce are lower for physicians and professionals than the general public, a divorce is much more likely than an above policy limits lawsuit.

    Let me know what you find out from the attorney.

    Leave a comment:


  • jfoxcpacfp
    replied
    Originally posted by altadoc View Post
    And you are much more likely to get divorced than you are to get sued for an above policy limits decision. I've never understood why people title things exclusively in their spouse name.
    Clients’ E&T attorney (Alaska) recommended putting assets in the spouse’s (non-doctor) name. I don’t question attorneys in legal matters, but, since you’re an attorney, can you comment on this advice? We have collaborated on estate planning and I have until this point been confident in the quality of advice received.

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  • altadoc
    replied
    And you are much more likely to get divorced than you are to get sued for an above policy limits decision. I've never understood why people title things exclusively in their spouse name.

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  • Larry Ragman
    replied
    Originally posted by Auric goldfinger View Post
    I went through my entire career with all taxable in my wife’s name. Other than my IRA, she owned everything- even my medical building. Mostly a byproduct of the malpractice crisis that I started practicing in. Can’t sue you for what you don’t own. Hope she doesn’t want a divorce. Figured out trust divisions after retirement.
    But TBE will do the same. Both of you own the entire investment, not half, so it cannot be attained in a law suit against one or the other. Use of TBE for investment accounts does complicate the use of beneficiary designations for estate planning, but that only matters if both owners die simultaneously.

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  • goldenchimpy
    replied
    Recently did this at fidelity. They do not allow you to open JTE initially online. You open the joint account with one of the other methods such as rights of survivorship. Once it’s open you go to “accounts and trade”. Then “account features.” Then “authorized access and account registration”. From there you select the account and check off that you want JTE. Both you and the other co-owner e-sign a few forms and in 3 business days they open a new account that is titled as JTE.

    It sounds a bit annoying but all together it took maybe 10 minutes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Auric goldfinger
    replied
    I went through my entire career with all taxable in my wife’s name. Other than my IRA, she owned everything- even my medical building. Mostly a byproduct of the malpractice crisis that I started practicing in. Can’t sue you for what you don’t own. Hope she doesn’t want a divorce. Figured out trust divisions after retirement.

    Leave a comment:


  • PacificRunner
    replied
    Originally posted by deeppizza View Post
    I've recently changed all my brokerage accounts to tenants by the entirety.
    I did the same thing last year. However, I have read (and I am too lazy to go find and share the sources) that to truly be TBE, a "unity of time" component must be satisfied. Meaning you must jointly take ownership of an asset at the same time. Some people question in the internet ether question whether retroactively adding a spouse to your taxable account would qualify. I still did it, but I'm not super confident in it. Plus anyone can challenge anything in court.

    Leave a comment:


  • CM
    replied
    Originally posted by endo4jc View Post

    Within the last week I opened a brokerage account at Fidelity. The only options listed online were “Joint With Rights Of Survivorship” and “Joint Tenants In Common”. What kind of account did open at Fidelity?

    At Vanguard, I opened a Tenants By The Entirety brokerage account.
    I can't remember the details at this point, but I talked with the reps at Fidelity, made sure they understood TBE, and then followed their directions to open the account.

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  • endo4jc
    replied
    Originally posted by CM View Post

    Your Schwab experience was better than mine. I made multiple calls and could not manage to get my account ownership converted. Ultimately, I had to open a new account as TBE, then transfer my assets out of the old account into the new one.

    I wrote about it here, and I believe the pulm doc who is a financial advisor wrote that the asset protection may not work in some circumstances if the ownership type was a conversion rather than a new account opened as TBE. I don't know if that is true or not, but I decided to open a new account at Fidelity as well, and transfer assets out of the old accounts there as well.
    Within the last week I opened a brokerage account at Fidelity. The only options listed online were “Joint With Rights Of Survivorship” and “Joint Tenants In Common”. What kind of account did open at Fidelity?

    At Vanguard, I opened a Tenants By The Entirety brokerage account.

    Leave a comment:

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