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My Asset Protection Strategy

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  • Hank
    replied
    Per original poster's request, topic closed.

    For other forum members, I strongly recommend that you engage a reputable trust and estate attorney licensed to practice in your state, rather than attempting to "roll your own" asset protection plan.

    Leave a comment:


  • Klemens
    replied
    If we cannot add more value to the community here for the readers, please end this discussion. I appreciate all your inputs. Thank you very much.

    Leave a comment:


  • jacoavlu
    replied
    also, if you get sued, you're going to have to find an attorney who is willing to defend your current setup. Perhaps you already are working with an attorney who would represent you in such case.

    Leave a comment:


  • CordMcNally
    replied
    Originally posted by Klemens View Post
    Because I explained how I studied the subject and how I set it up as DIY fashion, people (who may have no real knowledge about subject) assumed that is not a good plan and even called it as a “scheme” as if I want to hide or avoid something illegally. Other compared me to as self-treated symptoms and not getting real treatment from doctor. LOL.


    A scheme doesn't imply anything illegal and I don't think anybody here has accused you of trying to do anything illegal. As for the "hide" something portion, you said it yourself in the original post. It looks like you own nothing. The whole goal of asset protection is to shield, or hide, them from possible creditors.


    Originally posted by Klemens View Post
    What if I disclose that my plan was designed by a specialized asset protection attorney, would it change the way other members “advised” here? It still does not change the facts about the plan structure. At that time, I would bet no one who has no real knowledge about this would call it a “scheme” without providing specific “holes” in the plan. I didn’t want to have a pre-test bias when I originally posted my plan to obtain a real opinion from those who knows the subject.


    I think everyone here has encouraged you to seek the advice of an asset protection attorney. Nobody has recommended that you create one from a YouTube video. Seeking personal advice and feedback from somebody who is qualified to give it is very different from having an attorney endorse your structure. So far, you've said you spoke with attorneys who said that it depends what the judge says. That means one of two things to me. One, you're talking to the wrong attorneys. You should be given very specific answers and solutions to possible problems. Secondly, that response wouldn't instill confidence in the plan I have outlined.


    Leave a comment:


  • uteomfs
    replied
    Klemens, cant get to into mine, for a few reasons, but I will tell you that the second I read yours, it was extremely familiar. Mine obviously has some nuance, but my situation is different than yours, they are all a little different. I didn't need the Wyoming Trusts/LLC's bc the state I live in has good protections. I paid 8-10K, cant remember exactly, but somewhere in that neighborhood. Again, I will emphasize, find an attorney who specializes in this and practices this type of law. Completely different than a company who sells the product. I hope this makes sense. Also find someone local. Additionally, go back and listen to a recent WCI Podcast on Estate Planning and Asset Protection.

    Leave a comment:


  • Klemens
    replied
    Thank you jfoxcapcfp for your comment.
    Let me say this and you can judge it yourself.

    I posted the details of my plan so other can see and if anyone who has experience or knowledge about it can make constructive comments for me (or us) to learn form. It would be very naive of me to ask for legal advice from this group, don’t you agree? Because I explained how I studied the subject and how I set it up as DIY fashion, people (who may have no real knowledge about subject) assumed that is not a good plan and even called it as a “scheme” as if I want to hide or avoid something illegally. Other compared me to as self-treated symptoms and not getting real treatment from doctor. LOL.

    What if I disclose that my plan was designed by a specialized asset protection attorney, would it change the way other members “advised” here? It still does not change the facts about the plan structure. At that time, I would bet no one who has no real knowledge about this would call it a “scheme” without providing specific “holes” in the plan. I didn’t want to have a pre-test bias when I originally posted my plan to obtain a real opinion from those who knows the subject.

    Just because someone else provides something that does not comfort to your belief, it doesn’t mean that person is wrong.

    My suggestion is that if someone posts something here and if you have experience or knowledge about it then share or give advice so everyone can learn. If you don’t know it, then keep reading and learn from other, don’t make assumption. If you are an expert, then share. If you are not, then read and learn. Don’t just post so you can feel good about yourself. Again, I posted here with 2 purposes as I mentioned in my above post. I do not ask for approval nor ask to be heard!

    I do really thank those members who provide good feedback information with a good intention to share for all of us to learn from. You know who you are. Thank you very much.
    Last edited by Klemens; 01-21-2020, 09:21 AM.

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  • G
    replied
    Originally posted by Klemens View Post
    I wonder if you two above would mind sharing your asset protection strategy that you paid to have it set up and what the cost was, so that we all can learn? Thank you.
    Big umbrella policy and got rid of tenants. The cost is self evident.

    Maybe if you keep asking again and again somebody will post something to appease you!

    Leave a comment:


  • jfoxcpacfp
    replied
    Klemens, I believe the recurring theme in the responses you have received thus far is not that your plan should be endorsed by “professionals” who have no skin in the game but by hiring an attorney who is willing to risk his license by giving you specific recommendations and/or endorsing the plan you have cobbled together from watching YouTube, reading blog posts, etc. It appears to rub you the wrong way, as evidenced by your rejoinders to provide their plans, as if the lack thereof lends credibility to the fact that you at least have a plan. But getting opinions from forum members neither adds to nor subtracts from the viability of your plan. Whether you have put 2 days or 2 yrs into your project, all that really matters is if it will hold up in court. Neither you nor the other unlicensed forum members can provide that answer.
    Last edited by jfoxcpacfp; 01-22-2020, 05:17 AM. Reason: Capitalization

    Leave a comment:


  • Klemens
    replied
    I wonder if you two above would mind sharing your asset protection strategy that you paid to have it set up and what the cost was, so that we all can learn? Thank you.

    Leave a comment:


  • G
    replied
    This has been a fun thread. I have read about similar strategies, but when it came time to pull the trigger, I was just too lazy. It takes work to keep up with all this, as well as expenses. I am kind of shocked that you would do all of this and have such a small umbrella policy. Also based on the comment above, seems like a lot of hassle for relatively small NW. Further, if you are that concerned, you might limit exposure to RE.

    Leave a comment:


  • uteomfs
    replied
    The asset protection plan you discuss is actually pretty common, in terms of this structure being solicited by Asset Protection Companies, not necessarily attorneys. In theory this probably works, in the real world, with very sharp attorneys coming after your assets, well that's a different story, potentially. I have set up a very similar Asset Protection Strategy, I just dont have as much faith in it as I once did. I believe there are holes in it, and I believe it can be exposed.

    Take this for what its worth. If you truly need a plan that is this complicated, and it is, there is a lot of upkeep. Is it not worth it to you to pay an attorney, who specializes in this line of work, to draft this plan for you. And more importantly, find an attorney who has defended such cases (this is hard because as noted above, most lawsuits are settled before it gets to this point), generally these aren't the companies peddling these products. I cant imagine having this complex of an Asset Protection Structure unless your NW is greater than MP limits. So, to try and save 10-20K, 1-2% of your NW, on a do it yourself Asset Protection Plan sounds ludicrous. I understand you have probably put a lot of time into studying this, and your ahead of the game bc you have done your homework, but there is nuance with these structures and I believe you are well served seeking the counsel of an attorney. Good luck

    Leave a comment:


  • Klemens
    commented on 's reply
    Sorry that you just wasted your valuable time.
    Thank you.

  • StarTrekDoc
    replied
    Originally posted by StarTrekDoc View Post
    The recurring observation you've received is what we give our patients who come in asking our advice after three years of self treatment....

    yes you've asked all your friends and dr Google over the past years on treatment plan but it was only covering the base symotoms and didn't address the issue. Now we have a problem. I wish you would have consulted a physician directly

    Sound familiar? Get a professional who does this daily to review your situation.

    If your goal is to minimize exposure risk from casual nuisance lawsuits in an economical fashion to avoid the annual $800 LLC Cali fee? Probably accomplished this...until sued and the suing lawyer forwards your fee avoiding scheme to BOE review board

    If your goal is the stated solid asset protection? Don't know. Get a professional review. I would think a regular LLC would be just as much chance as your scheme at the end of the day.


    #47.1
    Klemens commented
    Today, 06:21 AM
    Another jump-in assumption from a professional! Amazing! As a doctor, should we gather all the data first before making such a diagnosis?
    Have you read all my responses? Thanks for your advice.

    Another jump-in assumption from a professional! Amazing! As a doctor, should we gather all the data first before making such a diagnosis?
    • Have you read all my responses? Thanks for your advice.

    Been following your comments, yes. Just attempted a metaphor that we as physicians all too often experience. You, as a consumer (patient) of asset protection are doing the same by asking other consumers/cohorts (us) on something we're all non-professionals at --- asset protection; instead of seeking professional help -- Asset Protection Lawyer for your specific situation and viability of said structure in asset protection.

    My premise is that your structure may minimize cursory discovery. Properly structured LLCs would do the same. A consistent observation of your responses is that you are seeking an inexpensive solution, including not seeking direct professional review of your situation.

    Take these observations and advice as you will; but it's been repeated several times over by a few and doesn't appear to be received well or dismissed as assumptions.

    Sometimes people seek advice. Other times they just want to be heard of their plans. It seems you seek the latter than the former.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim
    replied
    Did you use Lexis Advance? Or Lexis Practice Advisor? They have free trials. Legal research platforms are not free. Pretty pricey.

    Leave a comment:


  • Klemens
    commented on 's reply
    You are right. Unfortunately I have not yet found case law regarding this strategy. I would be interested to find out if anyone knows any case law similar to this.
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