Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Another asset protection thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Another asset protection thread

    There was an asset protection thread recently and it seems not everyone is bought into doing more than basic stuff like good insurance, max retirement accounts, etc. Can someone chime into what else I could do beside the bread and butter stuff?

    For insurance, I have renter, home, auto(250/500), umbrella (3/6 mil), and malpractice (1/3 mil). The state I practice has a patient compensation fund that is well funded. My specialty is anesthesia and my patient population is not necessarily litigious (many of my partners never been sued). I contribute fully to all my retirement accounts every year and plan to do so in the future as well. My state has no or negligent homestead exemption and no tenant by entirety.

    First question, given state's well funded patient compensation fund, would you do much more for asset protection beside what I have mention above (insurance, IRA, 401k). Will your answer changes as your net worth increases like what if you have 10 million?

    Second question, if you suggest more asset protection strategies such as FLP and DAPT ect, when would you do them? meaning at what net worth should I do them. 2 million? 3 million?

    Thanks in advance.

     

     

     

     

  • #2
    You sound great to me.  Could argue to increase your umbrella if you get that higher NW, but could also argue to keep it the same.

    Ditch the rental properties (and/or obscure/shelter in LLCs), never drive, don't marry/co-habitate, don't have kids, move taxable off-shore or non-traceable assets, don't do high-risk cases/stop practicing medicine are all strategies that would lower your liability....

    I think the reason that the other thread (or Jim's recent-ish blog post) didn't gain more traction is that bread and butter stuff seems to work.  I'm open to hearing about evidence to the contrary.

    Comment


    • #3


      DAPT
      Click to expand...


      Dual anti-platelet therapy?
      Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried (many) bags for a lovely and gracious 59 yo Cyd Charisse. (RIP) Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

      Comment


      • #4


        Will your answer changes as your net worth increases like what if you have 10 million?
        Click to expand...


        I'd probably find something else to do at that point (i.e., retire).
        Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried (many) bags for a lovely and gracious 59 yo Cyd Charisse. (RIP) Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

        Comment


        • #5
          DAPT domestic asset protection trust as opposed to a foreign off shore trust : a couple of states allow it as long as it satisfies a couple conditions.

          Comment


          • #6
            I would not do a DAPT at a $3M networth. The trusts are expensive to set up and maintain. You have to park money there and not use it. At a total NW of $3M it will not be possible to put enough into the trust to justify the cost.

            You can protect yourself from most liability with umbrella insurance, get a bigger malpractice policy if you think you need one, make sure your practice is structured to limit liability for incidents at the office. Speak with an attorney if your group owns a building for example.

            At $20M the DAPT might make sense. But only if you cannot protect assests more cheaply with insurance. It is not clear how well they work. Lots of ways to attact them. You can spend a lot of money fighting in court to keep the protection intact with no assurance you would win.

            Comment


            • #7
              Sounds good to me. If I had mega millions I would bow out of practicing medicine and find a lower risk career move or just retire. Not going to happen for a while though.

              Comment


              • #8




                Sounds good to me. If I had mega millions I would bow out of practicing medicine and find a lower risk career move or just retire. Not going to happen for a while though.
                Click to expand...


                How mega would be mega?

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am not really sure which is why I didn't specify. But probably above 8-10 there is little financial benefit to working and the risk continues.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I 'retired" from OB because of above concerns.  Above a certain net worth there is no reason to continue doing something risky.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Random musings...it is easy to get caught up in asset protection scenarios to the point that you hyper-focus on absurdly unlikely situations. You seem to be well-informed and protected. I’m not sure how much PUP insurance you have: $3M or $6M? Is one policy on the rental and the other on your home? Do you own multiple rentals? $6M sounds like an awful lot to me.

                      One area to be vigilant about, however, is family members. Teach your children not to use the internet unwisely (i.e., disparage others publicly, post pictures without permission, etc.) and make sure  you have maximum accident protection when they start driving. Be cautious about allowing them to operate a 3-ton weapon without proper training and make sure they do not text, talk on the phone, and drive. Limit the number of other teenagers they can haul around in their car (having no more than 1 passenger limits distractions). And so on.
                      Our passion is protecting clients and others from predatory advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        hey J Fox, my PUP says 3 million each occurrence with 6 million aggregate over policy period. I assume when people on this forum says I have so and so PUP they refer to each occurrence number. So I have a 3 million PUP policy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Different risks -

                          Family risks : bad siblings/children/step parents --- establish basic Family Trust and revise every 10 years.

                          Insurance for most everything else unless higher risk things like exposure on Real Estate - if you have a particular piece of property that's higher risk, you may want to wall that off with LLC vehicle.   LLCs also nice to for stealth wealth and avoid easy discovery for prying eyes looking for a target.

                          Unless you get big $5M NW, you'll be fine.   More than that would definitely get an estate Financial Planner in play.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you are practicing anesthesia, you malpractice exposure depends on where you are practicing.  If you practice in a hospital, at least in my state, the hospital has vicarious liability for an anesthesiologist who the patient did not personally choose to provide their care.  In other words, the hospital contracts with an anesthesia group and the group provides anesthesia for all cases done in the hospital.  In this situation, if there is a 30MM verdict for a bad baby case, your malpractice carrier would pay the 1MM limit of your policy, and the hospital would pick up the rest.

                            In contrast, if you are doing office anesthesia for a plastic surgeon doing face lifts and the patient on the table dies of an anesthesia complication, your exposure could be for the entire verdict, above your policy limits.  In that type of case, your personal assets are theoretically at risk.  However, such a loss is a one in a million kind of scenario.

                            As a later career physician, I have a high net worth that is potentially exposed to liability risk.  However, I only see patients in the hospital so the hospital is my default excess malpractice coverage.  From a purely risk perspective, I should stop seeing patients, but I don't like to live my life thinking primarily about risk.  If I were theoretically to lose my assets in a bad malpractice suit, I will simply have to adjust and live a frugal life, so be it.

                            Comment


                            • #15




                              My state has no or negligent homestead exemption and no tenant by entirety.
                              Click to expand...


                              I would set up taxable accounts at Vanguard or other companies that offer Tenant by Entirety.  If your spouse is in a less risky situation, consider having more assets (i.e. home, but not cars or other liable assets) under your spouse's name.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X